have a good day everyone. >> we'll see you tomorrow. since the election, stocks soaring, consumer confidence rising, small business optimism leaping. and the fed predicting a stronger economy is coming. so why are so many liberals and the media still warning about a trump presidency? hi everybody. i'm dagen mcdowell in for brenda bu butner. this is "bulls & bears." welcome to our panel. john, what do you say? >> i say that they're wrong and they're mad about it. i think that's what it is. look, the media that is out there, i think, has a personal

bias against donald trump. but they certainly are mad about the fact they're wrong. it's like sports reporters. those guys think that sports exist because of them, not that their job exists because of sports. they have it exactly backwards. can you imagine when president reagan was elected you had about an 8% bump the month after he got first elected before he got inaugurated. if people would have gone then and said, oh, this is a jimmy carter bounce, that is exactly what's going on right now. it's absolutely insane. one thing has changed. and that was donald trump got elected. and you have a business friendly, at least perceived, administration, and that's why the stock market is rallying. >> hadley, you have home builder sentiment up at 11-year high. you have small business gauge of sentiment jumping the most ahead since late 2009, consumer confidence is up and the media, they hate it. >> that's right. well, this is the most wonderful time of the year for consumption, but when you ask small business owners what their biggest concerns are, they

frequently mention government regulation, employee health care and compliance with the tax code. so there's got to be a lot of hope amongst small business owners we're going to see those issues addressed not just by the trump presidency but by the republican controlled congress working together to solve some of those problems. >> gary b., these are the job creators who are optimistic. it is investor who is are optimistic. and the media, they can't get onboard with it. who's right? >> well, i definitely don't think the media's right. here's the problem, dagen, they're going to double down. i mean, look, he has been thoughtful in his cabinet picks, whether you agree or not. he's certainly picking bright, successful people. he's tried to reach out to all class. he's certainly employed the class warfare card. he wants to shrink government, which i think every president has done, but at least he's now putting in people that, you know, want to shrink the department of energy, want to shrink the department of

education. i mean, my gosh, the guy is charismatic, whether you like his tweets or not he gets it out there and he's trying to be as honest abos he can about his opinions. this is a guy that would say he walks on water and the press say he can't swim. the press only thing they have going for them because they generally don't get paid a lot is my gosh, they have to be right. as pointed out in the past, they got this election wrong but boy they are going to bring trump down if they possibly can so at the end they can say, look, it's right. i really think it's terrible for the u.s., terrible for the average citizen out there. >> the optimism, jessica, can actually lift an economy. >> that's absolutely true. >> if people feel better, it can cause an economy to grow quicker. >> because they have the extra money barack obama got them in their pockets and now they're going to go out and spend it, at least that's the theory i'm going with. >> what extra money? >> barely during the last eight

years. >> anyway, listen, i'm excited about this. i think it's great especially at christmas time for people to be feeling good about it. studies are showing consumer confidence way upthat is split along partisan lines and that is important to remember, that might be liberal sour grapes or whatever it is, but there is a split there. and donald trump has to be the president for all americans, even us communists over here, and i would like to think john layfield for that jimmy carter bounce line which i will be using regularly now moving forward. >> jonas, the s&p 500, those companies have added about $1 trillion in market value, which indicates that investors are looking down the road ahead. the road paved by trump. and they like what they see. >> well, that added ten over the previous administration, that figure's just a few weeks into it -- >> i'm talking about a few weeks, buddy. >> okay. well, did that in a few weeks in '09 after the march '06 bottom, i believe. but that's another story.

i will say there's kind of a wash here for everybody that's optimistic now. there's somebody who's now pessimi pessimistic. and those people whether it's the media or their readers, are about to make the same mistake that all the anti-obama people made. a lot of people sat around on cash for eight years now in commodities, in -- waiting for america's decline in thinking obama is going to destroy the economy and the stock market. they missed out on the greatest bull market in one of the histories of the presidencies. and now the other side is about to make the same mistake and think that the policies of this administration are going to lead to doom and destruction and decline of america and everything. and they're going to sit it out. and possibly miss eight years of maybe not as good a period in the market, because we came up with a very big low and higher valuation, but certainly nothing to be avoided sit on cash and hide until the end. i think to not think your politics are so important let it cloud your opinion on investing or what the economy's going to do. because ultimately the policies of these administrations aren't as important as you think they

are. >> john, do you worry that the media and that negativity and that pessimism can actually talkdown people's feeling good and hurt the economy in the process? >> no. because i don't think anybody listens to them anymore. they don't. i mean, used to be when you saw something in "new york times" or saw something in your local newspaper you believed it. now i don't think people believe it. and i think for very good reason. at best they're skeptical. and i think that's good. it's also bad because it's led to a lot of fake news being out there, but that also adds to the fact that no one believes the media anymore. look at what they said about trump. what we're doing in america is not working. it is not worked since the late '90s. saw debt double under president bush, saw it double under president obama. food stamps, which goes one-on-one with poverty, has almost tripled since 2000. the middle class has been destroyed. i don't know if president-elect trump is going to be a great president. i don't know if his cabinet's going to work. but i know what we were doing was not going to work. and i think that's why the

market and i think that's why america has optimism right now. >> gary b., that's also why hillary clinton lost in part. but we haven't had an economy in one any one calendar year that grew faster than 3% during the entire obama administration. >> i totally agree with you. this is -- you know, what jessica was saying points out, and we love jessica on the show, but it's just delusional thinking to think, oh, my gosh, thank obama for all the money we have. the average family out there adjusted for inflation has less money now. why do you think vast portions of the country voted for trump? i mean, obama was so great and basically hillary was -- wait, let me finish, please. and hillary was basically obama 2, then they go, my gosh, i'm feeling so good that i'm going to vote in this obama clone. no, that was not the case. that's why trump won, for crying out loud. i think the economy right now is at best tepid. i think people are looking at trump to restart things. and they wanted change.

that's hopefully what we're going to get. >> there's plenty of data out there that shows people who rank the economy as their number one issue actually ended up backing hillary clinton. so i take your point and i adore you, but i don't agree with it. and i don't think that i'm delusional, certainly on any planet. >> so you think the vast portion of this country -- >> no, i think the vast portion -- >> good? >> i think the vast portion of this country voted for change. i do believe that. hillary clinton was running as a third term -- gary, i let you finish. let me finish. yes. people voted on pocketbook, it's the economy, stupid, i get it. i'm just saying that things in the last year certainly in the -- and looking at all of it when you have over 15 million new jobs, when you have a stock market that's almost tripled, people are feeling better than they did. and for you to discount the progress that we got under barack obama and just give it all to trump is absurd. >> gary, final word. >> i'm not giving any kudos to trump yet, for crying out loud. but i sure don't think that the

economy was great under obama. in fact, it was horrible. the unemployment rate you keep pointing out that number, it hasn't even kept up with the population growth. that's why we have, you know, people out there the total unemployment still at about 10%. >> final word, gary. thank you so much. record breaking run for stocks since trump got elected. i'll say that. thanks, guys. cavuto on business about 20 minutes from now. neil, what have you got? >> hey, dagen. with the electoral college vote just two days away now, the rush is onto sway electors away from donald trump. is it another way to delegitimize a president trump? and we are focusing so much on russia these days, did anyone notice we're ignoring a much bigger threat of late from china? see you at the bottom of the hour. >> thanks, neil. we can't wait. but up here first, president-elect trump saying you're hired for more cabinet picks. now someone here says some of those picks' first actsssss

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president-elect trump's cabinet taking shape. and his picks are looking to shake things up. some of them on record criticizing the very agencies they've been tapped to lead. gary b., you say their first job should be to fire themselves and everyone in their departments. >> exactly, dagen. kudos for them. you know, the left seems to think that these agencies, these cabinet areas have existed -- they're in the constitution somehow, like they're there in 1779. the department of education has only been around since 1979. let's use that as an example. their budget over the last five years has doubled. but you know what, just one statistic in 2015, the percentage of high school seniors that were deemed proficient in history was 12%. now, if that is right there is not an argument for wiping out the department of education, i

don't know what is. that's a solid f in any other person's score book. >> hadley, in the last eight years we've had overreach, over regulation and lawless rule making by this administration that really crushed entire industries. what's wrong with a rollback toward putting more hands -- power in the hands of people in business? >> that's right. americans voted for change, and a shakeup change is what they're going to get. it's going to be very healthy to have leaders in these agency who is are critical of every dollar and how it gets spent, critical of every program and how it operates because, again, there's going to be alarmism and there's going to be fear mongering that if these agencies are somehow scaled back that this means the dismantling of the federal government or that certain jobs aren't going to get taken care of. we have state governments to do so many of these things. gary b. mentioned the department of education. education should be the purview of the state. send that money back to the classroom, back to the states and see how effective it can be there. >> jonas, you love big government.

>> the states do such a great job with the public schools compared to like the kids in hong kong. anyway, the problem actually is exactly what i'm saying is that government in america, state, federal, is all run sub par compared to other major countries. now, our companies are run better in most cases than almost anywhere in the world. when you're like who runs the best -- generally a u.s. company. as far as who's got the best transportation, who has the best schools, best health care when the government pays dollar per dollar, that's never been america. i don't think we can build half the stuff we built 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. the golden gate bridge, i know they can't do that today. so what i'm trying to say is having these executives in these jobs hopefully doesn't lead to closing them. that's what happens when you have incompetent managers and can't do it, that they can run it and be competitive with world governments who have to operate some of these things whether it's transportation or education. we can start doing better against other countries, not just in corporate profitable stuff but in the government area

too. >> and, jess, with a record number of regulations coming out of the obama white house over the last eight years, you get rid of some of them, or all of them. >> you're going a little farther, but a lot of them are going to go. i think it's smart to be examining each and every one of them and looking at the outputs that have come from them. some of them are looking down the line, right? going to be efficient or right out of the gate, but we need to look at them. that's for sure. i agree with jonas, the idea of abolishing something kind of seems like a failure and i think it's odd to put people in charge of them who have spoken to that say i want to run this and i don't think it should exist is very odd. i'm concerned about the department of education. policies and how she feels about public schools in this country, charter schools, i understand, but reform teachers unions and public schools to make sure we can educate our children better so everyone gets a shot at a great education. >> reform unions, that's an oxymoron, john, but -- >> yeah, talk about reform in

unions, first, the teachers union hast hurt our education, they want to allow merit pay, won't allow bad teachers to be fired. the department of education has failed period. what we're doing is not working. talk about waste it comes from all of these administrations, all of these agencies. look at the epa used as a political pawn, not to merit whether is a pipeline good or bad, it was used to further a political agenda. that's how most of these agencies are. again, what we were doing was not working. it's worth taking people who don't like these agencies, i don't like the government either, most americans don't, and trying to do something with them. >> two words, gary b., clean house. final word to you. >> oh, i give you three, drain the swamp. >> hey, got somebody named donald j. trump elected to the white house. thanks everybody. cashin in just over an hour from now. eric, what do you have coming up? >> hi, dagen, traumatized by trump. urging employees to get therapy if they're stressed out about the election. and guess who's picking up the

tab? we'll tell you all about it. cashin see you at 11:30. >> thanks, we'll be watching. up here first, would you like to live in a luxury hotel? well, some irs workers are. and they're doing it on your dime. ♪ this holiday, the real gift isn't what's inside the box... it's what's inside the person who opens it. give your loved ones ancestrydna, the simple dna test that can tell them where they came from -by revealing their ethnic mix. it's a gift as original as they are. order now at ancestrydna.com.

another irs mess. a new senate report finding the tax agency racked up a $1.4 million travel bill for just 27 employees. that's about $52,000 per person

with some staying at luxurious accommodations for long periods of time. hadley, really? >> yeah. as if the irs was a particularly popular or likable arm of the federal government anyway. i don't know how you defend something like this. this is the kind of attitude that americans are sick of. it's a some of us are more equal than others animal farm kind of mentality. shouldn't be spending taxpayer dollars that way and there's no defense of it. >> john, long stays at the grand hyatt, the ritz carlton, renting a $1 million house out in the burbs outside of d.c. >> why is no one ever prosecuted in this stuff? they say we have so much waste, we're going to get rid of it. those 27 names, make them famous, put them on websites, prosecute them for theft. i don't understand why that never happens. if i had $5,000 unpaid to the irs in 2014, they'd find that. they certainly can't find these guys staying at five-star hotels. put a bounty, i'm serious, put

bounty for people for government waste, put a percentage, i guarantee you'll have more waste cut than had in the last six years. >> gary b., keeps happening. $49 million spent on 225 conferences. >> exactly, dagen. but they're giving up the per diem is like $7,000 a month for lodging, but here's the thing, i don't even blame the employees. if i had a per diem of $7,000 a month and i worked for the irs, you bet i'm staying at the ritz carlton. when i've been on per diem back in my corporate life, i tried to spend every single dollar i could because i could consider that income. that goes back to our previous segment. why are some of these agencies still around at the same budget levels? right here you can cut about 50% of the irs and not see one percentage increase in productivity. but you would see in some of these spending accounts. >> jess, this is why some people hate government. >> i totally agree. i was shocked when i read this

and what am i going to say in defense of it, and i can't. this is not good. i think if you go back to coburn waste book and things like that, there are plenty of places in the federal government we can shave off money without cutting into things like entitlement programs which americans need and like. >> we only need to remember, jonas, the general services administration, that one dude having the wine party in a bathtub. >> i hope you all get audit letters in your christmas stockings this year. bahumbug. we're not talking about how much money they brought in on these long trips. what if they brought in $20 million in audits in these long six-month stays in hotels near possibly people they were auditing. >> they're in d.c. >> second of all, this works -- works out to $250 per employee per day on average. and this is the 27 or so worst offenders? if you had an employee and you send them six months away to some location to work, i think that's about the bill you're

going to get. if you don't expect that, that doesn't seem out of line for hotels, food, when you're not living at home. you've got to also say how much cost to hire somebody else in that location, probably more than government benefits. so maybe look at the whole picture. >> the picture is those hotels i mentioned are in washington, d.c. where the irs is based. thank you. thank you, hadley and jessica, great to see both you ladies. coming up, winter blast has millions of americans bundling up. get the name that will help you beat the bitter cold.

predictions. gary b., go. >> dagen, it's bitter cold in most of the country, but it's warm at disney world. i love disney stock, i own it up 30% in 2017. >> john. >> grab you a book, it's cold this winter. barnes & noble is not dead, has a 5% yield, i own it, i think

it's up 20% in a year. >> jonas. >> mom, dad, hit mute, on december 26th miami is one of the few locations where burger king will take all the junk and garbage and toys you don't like and exchange for a whopper. that is good for restaurant brands international. neil now. all right. a mad dash to switch electoral votes ahead of monday's crucial electoral vote. hi everyone. glad to have you. i'm neil cavuto. by all accounts no matter how the electoral college vote goes down, put this down. donald trump is and will still be america's next president. but that is not stopping a number of celebrities urging electors to vote against him, or democrats demanding an intelligence briefing into alleged russian attacks they swear helped him, maybe tipped the election. the leader is none other than christine pelosi, daughter of nancy pelosi, who joined me on fox business network. do you think hillary clinton